TRANSCRIPT- DOMINIC ROBSON & KATE CHAN IN DISCUSSION

Kate: Hi there! So my project is about inbetween culture- and I’ve made artefacts that kind of examine that. And I’m trying to reach out to people who’re experts in their fields about these artefacts, so I can figure out how to get representation of my frankenculture into mainstream dialogue. So I reached out to you about my frankenanthem, and so...
Dominic: Yeah- sure- sounds good.
Kate: So I guess I’ll just start off with what was your first impression of the Frankenanthem?
Dominic: Wow, that’s a big question- you’re kind of jumping in. Well I guess it made me really, really curious – there are so many elements to it. It’s such a kind of mash up with new cultural things coming in and out of the song itself. And it’s nice to see how you’ve made different cultures come together. There’s something new, that could be taken out of it. Overall, I think it’s an interesting piece of music, even though the harmony’s a bit off. It’s coming from a very interesting place to try these [cultural] things out

Kate: [laughs] It’s pretty overwhelming, yeah. A lot of people usually need some adjustment time then they begin to draw on their own expertise after understanding the reasons behind the artefact- which brings me to my next question. How does the conceptual underpinning behind the anthem itself influence your view of it? Like, this anthem is a vehicle to bring the idea of in-betweener cultures into mainstream dialogues…

Dominic: Hm, I think knowing the context behind this made me look at this- this, frankenanthem in a very- in a different way. You’re really using me as a political tool, to try and push your stance!
Kate: [laughs]
Dominic: It’s really making me consider the political repercussions – your anthem becomes a political tool. I do think that because it gives a very a different reading – when you compare it to more traditional national anthems.
Kate: I feel that your mileage may vary depending on your cultural investment in these cultures that appear and disappear in the anthem- like for me it’s super personal but maybe not so much for you?

Dominic: Yeah- I feel that national anthems are about the strength and power- and stability of a country or culture. But it’s interesting how that’s evolved to people working together, of sorts, in your anthem…
Kate: Well that links in really nicely to my next question, I think. How and where, do you think this artefact might be able to open a dialogue about cultural representation in sound?
Dominic: That’s a difficult question because I feel that there’s no particular representation in sound- it’s not really like visual stuff… Maybe you could consider the circumstances around this piece- is it more of a protest thing or is it more of an nationalistic anthem. You should definitely talk more to other people though; they’ll have views that could be really helpful. And maybe try taking it out of the academic sphere? It’s interesting to see or imagine how the anthem fits together.
Kate: Yeah- about that! You might not have noticed, but this anthem actually makes proper grammatical sense. Like, if you translated it into English from Mandarin and Cantonese- or into one cohesive language- it would make sense… literal sense- like the lines are ripped from these various anthems, but they’re arranged in a way that they make grammatical sense. For example, say- the line from Australia- ‘We’ve golden soil and wealth for toil’- the line after that, it links to it, and makes sense.
Dominic: That’s interesting- I’ve got a question of my own. How did you come to the conclusion- how did you make that anthem?
Kate: Yeah, so basically the anthem is made up of four verses with sixteen lines in total- four lines to each verse. I have three languages- these of Cantonese, Chinese- sorry, Mandarin, not Chinese- and Australian English in the anthem. Of the four lines in each verse, two are from Hong Kong, one is from China and one is from Australia. It’s biased towards the Hong Kong ‘anthem’- which is not actually Hong Kong’s official national anthem. Hong Kong’s national anthem is actually China’s- the one that sounds like a marching song. The song in this one though, is called ‘Under the Lion Rock’, and it’s become Hong Kong’s unofficial anthem- even the Hong Kong government kind of acknowledges that. And I really liked that, because Hong Kong’s cultural custodians- rather than it’s nationalistic party were the one who chose that song. So it’s got a stronger bias in the anthem than the other two anthems of Australia and China.
Dominic: This is interesting- if you could formalize it- you’ve made a system – a framework. So a good way to expand this would to be to run workshops, if you want to get that framework and ideology into general cultural representation.

Kate: That’s a point that bears a lot of thinking about. Moving on a little, does this artefact point out anything you think is of particular interest?
Dominic: Yeah, it does point out a lot of different things. You could work with different nationalities- like people at conflict with each other.
Kate: Like North and South Korea?
Dominic: Heh, maybe. There is conflict in your anthem- maybe it would work well with open dialogue- like a shared musical performance? Across languages maybe?
Kate: About that- before I forget. All of the performers in my version of the anthem are able to speak English, Mandarin and Cantonese. It’s sung as a duet, where the girls sing the Australian parts, the guys the Mandarin and all of them the Hong Konger parts.
Dominic: With that in mind, there is a dissonance to it – a lack of agreement. The dictionary definition reflects it really well- the lack of harmony in muscal notes and lack of agreement and harmony amongst people. It’s- it’s almost uncomfortably reflected in your anthem. It’s so politically loaded…
Kate: I could ease into political discourse, maybe?
Dominic: I don’t see why you couldn’t?

Kate: So, given the context and your own experiences within the field of sound, how do you think your own experience might differ from that of a layman?
Dominic: Heh. Well, I’m really interested in sound overall. I think I’m less dismissive than the regular layman might be- because your anthem isn’t- context is really important to it. And I’ve also got more specific knowledge. Sound is hard- people are very clear about what they like, or what they’re passionate about. Like, people really have strong views about pop music, or country for one. There’s a strong engagement- so you should consider how sound and engagement work together. And since your- you and your piece are coming into this with such strong views – you might have to explain to people your views, how this artefact works, I think.
Kate: About people’s views- so does this artefact represent unique cultures in ways that would be considered ‘normal’- why, or why not?
Dominic: I’m not sure if that question is quite right. I think it’s better to say that you’re exploring multiple cultures - not really investigating single cultures?
Kate: Yeah, that’s about the shape of it- I’d say that my project is definitely focused on multiple cultures- but there’s a difference between my Frankencultures and multiculturalism itself, I’d say. Multiculturalism sort of encompasses culture A, B, and C as a whole, very nicely. Whilst Frankencultures are more about picking bits of culture A, B and C and taking them all to form a new, functional – if semi-disjointed cultural identity, like Frankenstein’s Monster.
Dominic: I can see that. It’s really representative of the space between culture…

Kate: So is this anthem more of an amalgamation of nationalistic pride, or is it more of a critique of nationalism? Why- or why not?
Dominic: Again, you’re bringing a criticism of nationalism- I really don’t think it’s any sort of amalgamation – it’s a reflection of in-between cultures, I’d think.

Kate: So as it is now, it’s quite stagnative. What ways do you think that further dialogue could be brokered using this anthem?
Dominic: There’s a lot- I’d love to see a workshop as I previously mentioned, because you’ve created a framework, so obviously you’ve got to apply that. Do you know Gareth Malone?
Kate: Uh, I’m going to have to say no, I don’t.
Dominic: [sends Google link to Gareth Malone] So basically Malone brings together lots of different people in singing and choirs – and I think you can do that. You’ve really, really got to do it with more, and more people. It’d become an interesting illustration of harmony and the disharmonic. And definitely look at work with musicians, who can help compose the lyrics and sound designers who can sort of key all the sounds together.
Kate: Yeah, I’m never going to claim to be a sound designer!
Dominic: You’re basically bringing people in for context to it- and to make it bigger and better, I’d say.
Kate: I guess I could then ask more specifically, how might further evolution in altering the form and- or presentation of the anthem come about?
Dominic: I’ve already talked a bit about it previously, but I’d also say definitely work with choirs- maybe different choirs. You could do it online, perhaps and then key them digitally together- bringing two groups together.
Kate: It could be interesting to work with two groups that don’t want to work together on a separate basis, then present them with the final product keyed together where they’re kind of working together?
Dominic: Maybe- but the biggest thing is people. I guess a basic way to start would be to find someone who wants a composition…
Kate: So to just tie this up, is there anything I’ve missed that you think is important to the ideology behind this anthem?
Dominic: Um…. Hm… I think it’s a really nice project. I’m interested in the anthem- the framework on my side. I think it’s really important that you talk about what your project could turn into. I think the anthem you’ve got now is a really nice example of it’s potential – you’ve got lots of directions to take it in- have you thought about whether it would be more of a grassroots thing- or a government funded project?
Kate: I think it’s really interesting and could go either way. I think I’m speaking from a strange perspective here, because my dad works for the government, but my cousin is pretty anti-governmental, so it leads to pretty tense family dinners. So really, it could be both- depending on how I framed it- like if I framed it as some way to unify multiple ethnicities in one country, in an united nationalistic front, it could work for a government. But on the other hand, it could be used as a protest, grassroots movement tool to highlight the need to talk about cultural minorities or in betweener cultures. But to answer your question more specifically, I personally think it’d be more effective to have the anthem as a representation of grassroots movement, because that’s what my project is about, bringing voices to people who aren’t able to see or voice themselves in mainstream cultural dialogue.
Dominic: And that’s probably where you should begin with your work, if you’re going to be taking that into the future, then!
Kate: Thank you for taking the time to talk to me, I realize you must be super busy with your own personal stuff, and it’s helped a lot with how I might put the anthem framework forwards in a more practical sense.
Dominic: No problem, glad to help.